[five0n54]

So my e92 335i is a full street/track build. Built motor, m3 suspension, LSD, coilovers, upgraded twins, twin disc clutch and so on. Is a big brake kit necessary? I hear a lot of conflicting answers. Why do some say not to? I planned on getting the f87 brake kit, and probably still will regardless.

Thanks.

[rasabatino]

Have you EVER tracked your build? I don't recommend taking a super high HP build to the track and finding out about issues on turn 1.

The brakes on stock 335i are more than beefy enough to handle a proper track day with fresh racing brake fluid and track pads, but if your car is pushing significantly more HP than stock you need to be extra careful.

[five0n54]

Originally Posted by rasabatino

Have you EVER tracked your build? I don't recommend taking a super high HP build to the track and finding out about issues on turn 1.

The brakes on stock 335i are more than beefy enough to handle a proper track day with fresh racing brake fluid and track pads, but if your car is pushing significantly more HP than stock you need to be extra careful.

I haven't tracked it yet, haven't really driven it at all since I've been having all the work done. Car should be done at the end of this month. And yes it will be pushing a lot more HP than stock, around 550whp. I assume I need bigger brakes but I've heard objections to it, not sure the reasoning.

[drioss]

Just get steel braided lines for higher temps, higher temp brake fluid, slotted and drilled rotors, and also track intended pads, all this should keep maintenance prices lower and less $ spent in general.

[five0n54]

Originally Posted by drioss

Just get steel braided lines for higher temps, higher temp brake fluid, slotted and drilled rotors, and also track intended pads, all this should keep maintenance prices lower and less $ spent in general.

And this should have around the same braking performance as the M big brake kit?

[335i54n]

yes, with all those mods, why not have a bbk. any type hpde or canyons drives will cook stock brakes. high speeds come at u quickly and with repeated higher speed stop, the better braking feel and endurance is needed. imo fxx brembo (340/370/380mm) kinda suck with such a small stock pad size but imo is a bare min just for better brake feel alone.

[oVeRdOsE.]

wondering the same as op.

I did a BBK on my audi, from single piston 310mm to 6 pistons 330mm, and initially I didnt fell any difference with the stock setup, but after a while, some 1/4 miles and canyons, I trust more the car on any circumstances.

Where exactly I,m questioning to go F80 M3 370mm on my BMW.

Because my audi never fade.

And few weeks ago I did a 110mph to 55mph, and I kept a safe distance to do so, but at one point the car faded enough to be scary, but not enough to loose all brakes...

My brakes got few years on it, I would say they are 35-40% worn out. Not new , not old. Brembo NEO pads + oem rotors.


Options :

- oem+ : better rotors (slotted and/or drilled) and good pads (ebc or hawk)

- all in : F80 calipers + 370 rotors + pads.

[edycol]

Guys, be VERY careful with drilled rotors. The structural integrity of a rotor is compromised if it is drilled. Unless OE rotor, skip it.
Even OE rotor, there might be an issue. It is a track, there is a lot of heat.

For that power, racing pads are a must, and not any racing pads: Pagid, Carbotech etc.

Another thing to consider is that Brembo calipers retain more heat and generally heat up pistons faster. So, racing fluid is imperative: Motul RBF660 or 700, Endless, Castrol SRF (this fluid is tricky, requires a thorough flush).
Next thing, master cylinder. I would get M3 E90 MC. I have F30 front brembo calipers on E90 328, and rear Brembo from E82 135, and went MC from M3. M3 has 26/25mm bore, while 335/328 is 25/25mm.
For 550whp, I would go 370mm front fortors for sure from F30. Another really good trick to deal with heat is titanium shims to prevent heat from creeping onto pistons and then the fluid.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by oVeRdOsE.

wondering the same as op.

I did a BBK on my audi, from single piston 310mm to 6 pistons 330mm, and initially I didnt fell any difference with the stock setup, but after a while, some 1/4 miles and canyons, I trust more the car on any circumstances.

Where exactly I,m questioning to go F80 M3 370mm on my BMW.

Because my audi never fade.

And few weeks ago I did a 110mph to 55mph, and I kept a safe distance to do so, but at one point the car faded enough to be scary, but not enough to loose all brakes...

My brakes got few years on it, I would say they are 35-40% worn out. Not new , not old. Brembo NEO pads + oem rotors.


Options :

- oem+ : better rotors (slotted and/or drilled) and good pads (ebc or hawk)

- all in : F80 calipers + 370 rotors + pads.

Brembo NEO pads won't have the initial bite of regular BMW pads. Unless you track, I would always go BMW E90 pad. It is an aggressive pad, has an instant response. Regular rotors over drilled unless rotors are dimpled or slotted. Don;t forget, drilled, slotted rotors reduce brake surface too. Change fluid too.

[Mojo_jojo77777]

As someone who has been tracking for the past 10+ years, the misconception of "needing a bbk" is the worst among new people. 550whp is not even that much.

The only things you will need for your first track day, is fresh DOT 4 brake fluid (I personally use Motul RBF 660, a lot of others use Castrol SRF, which allows for longer durations between brake flushes due to "wet boiling points"), track/autocross/streetish pads, and tires in decent shape.

Those are the big 3 for anyone going on track for the first time. The only reason I went with the f80 brembos on my e90 (full bolt ons + ethanol mix) is to open my options on brake pad choices. But for someone just starting, it will humble you seeing how slow you are on track, and how cars with 1/3 of power will lap you.

As you progress, then you will want better pads and tires that can keep up with those brake pads.

I even track my A90 Supra with just pads and fluids on oem sized brakes.
E9X M3's do just fine tracking with single piston calipers as well as my old S2000.

[Joe_in_WLA]

💯☝️

Also former track junky, club racer and HPDE instructor.

[ericold]

Originally Posted by edycol

Unless you track, I would always go BMW E90 pad. It is an aggressive pad, has an instant response. Regular rotors over drilled unless rotors are dimpled or slotted. Don;t forget, drilled, slotted rotors reduce brake surface too. Change fluid too.

i agree with you about the rotors choice.
for normal driving i go with ATE pads, much much better pads than OEM ,unless its the same brand in some models.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by ericold

i agree with you about the rotors choice.
for normal driving i go with ATE pads, much much better pads than OEM ,unless its the same brand in some models.

Ah yes. I forgot ATE, which I actually have on BMW and VW Though my 328 has F30 front Brembo’s.
On E90 OE pad is Jurid. ATE does provide better bite IMO. I had them with regular calipers and Brembo. Best street pad IMO.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Mojo_jojo77777

As someone who has been tracking for the past 10+ years, the misconception of "needing a bbk" is the worst among new people. 550whp is not even that much.

The only things you will need for your first track day, is fresh DOT 4 brake fluid (I personally use Motul RBF 660, a lot of others use Castrol SRF, which allows for longer durations between brake flushes due to "wet boiling points"), track/autocross/streetish pads, and tires in decent shape.

Those are the big 3 for anyone going on track for the first time. The only reason I went with the f80 brembos on my e90 (full bolt ons + ethanol mix) is to open my options on brake pad choices. But for someone just starting, it will humble you seeing how slow you are on track, and how cars with 1/3 of power will lap you.

As you progress, then you will want better pads and tires that can keep up with those brake pads.

I even track my A90 Supra with just pads and fluids on oem sized brakes.
E9X M3's do just fine tracking with single piston calipers as well as my old S2000.

True.
I would say trial first and then he should go from there.
Also, if he sticks to one track, maybe track is not hard on brakes.
My track, HPR in Colorado, is super hard on brakes and suspension, as well as cooling system (altitude). Same reason going to F30 brembo’s, better choice of pads and, well, looks good

[tdott]

My guess is that it will heat soak and oil temps will sky rocket before he has brake issues.

You don't need a bbk...
In fact, you don't need all that power and you should actually detune it when taking it to the track for the first time until you have more experience.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by tdott

My guess is that it will heat soak and oil temps will sky rocket before he has brake issues.

You don't need a bbk...
In fact, you don't need all that power and you should actually detune it when taking it to the track for the first time until you have more experience.

I would assume someone paid attention to the fact that it will need larger oil cooler(s).

[tdott]

Originally Posted by edycol

I would assume someone paid attention to the fact that it will need larger oil cooler(s).

There is a reason you don't see a lot of N54/5 cars at the track.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by tdott

There is a reason you don't see a lot of N54/5 cars at the track.

Oh I see them. Colorado is probably the worst to cool off engine due to altitude. But usually they run veey large radiator type coolers.
I run on my N52 radiator cooler from N54/5. I would say that cooler is appropriate for N52, N54/5 definitely bigger or double.

[dominancex]

Originally Posted by Mojo_jojo77777

As someone who has been tracking for the past 10+ years, the misconception of "needing a bbk" is the worst among new people. 550whp is not even that much.

The only things you will need for your first track day, is fresh DOT 4 brake fluid (I personally use Motul RBF 660, a lot of others use Castrol SRF, which allows for longer durations between brake flushes due to "wet boiling points"), track/autocross/streetish pads, and tires in decent shape.

Those are the big 3 for anyone going on track for the first time. The only reason I went with the f80 brembos on my e90 (full bolt ons + ethanol mix) is to open my options on brake pad choices. But for someone just starting, it will humble you seeing how slow you are on track, and how cars with 1/3 of power will lap you.

As you progress, then you will want better pads and tires that can keep up with those brake pads.

I even track my A90 Supra with just pads and fluids on oem sized brakes.
E9X M3's do just fine tracking with single piston calipers as well as my old S2000.

💯

I highly recommend the Ferodo DS2500 pads as a good starter track pad. I run those and will heat soak close to the end of the session before they start fading. (I need to add another oil cooler in addition to my ER upgraded one)

I've run numerous endurance races in cars with stock brake calipers with just upgraded fluid, lines and pads.

[M-technik-3]

Your going to hear a thousand different things. I would learn the car first and without a race style tire.

Thinking your a rookie to track correct so take a few scca/bmw course before going nuts. Having too much brake on a car that is dual purpose just might make it so it won't stop on the street. Brakes need heat to stop and Big brakes are no different.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

Your going to hear a thousand different things. I would learn the car first and without a race style tire.

Thinking your a rookie to track correct so take a few scca/bmw course before going nuts. Having too much brake on a car that is dual purpose just might make it so it won't stop on the street. Brakes need heat to stop and Big brakes are no different.

I would say 80% of tracking is actually preparing and than disassembilng track parts if car is dual purpose.
I always switch pads before and after track day. On street, always street pad!

[M-technik-3]

That's why I just do budget racing in lemons. Team combines funds we race...or rent a seat for an event from a known team. So many budget race series out there some cheaper than others.