Petrol In a Diesel (or vice versa)? AA's new 'Fuel Assisst' service...

alcook · 06-08-2009, 04:11 PM

Witnessed the new(ish) AA service 'Fuel Assist' in action today.

After loads of searching last night regarding misfueling, I found many horror stories and myths about this growing issue. Though I'd share a very recent experience here to help, especially as what I saw today and speaking to the guy, many of these myths were dispelled....

Mate put petrol in his D last night. German. 06. Nuff said.

Story is: 30 miles left on the OBC (~1 gallon) filled up to the top with Shell Unleaded and drove off. Soon as the car started to run poorly, he realised what he'd done and knocked it into neutral, coasted to a stop and killed the ignition. Total distance 1/2 mile tops.

Majorly pissed off for doing something stupid the AA recovered him to his home. Their Fuel assist service was unavailable after 7. It was an independent who turned up and they offered to take it away and 'clean it out'. Thankfully he refused.

Got home and and read through many horror stories about fuel pumps disintegrating and swarfing the injectors, people paying out thousands etc etc. Seems this is supported by an experienced and recently ex BMW tech from the amount of dodgily drained cars he's had through his hands.

The tow truck guy also told him:

It wouldn't be covered by insurance as it was a user created mechanical fault
Taking it to the steeler would invalidate the fuel mechanism warranty and possibly future engine issues (even minor related)
Bills IRO £4k could be expected if the steeler replaced the various lines, pumps, senders and injectors. Other bills for £500 were a possibility for simply cleaning it out, as he'd driven it.
Modern common rail diesels simply fail and are exceedingly hard and expensive to repair

Feeling a little sick, he called the insurers. He was covered. £350 excess and the car off the road for a few days with a potential very large bill against his name if the steeler did the full monty. I suggest calling yours to check, as not all cover this.

He decided against that option (loss of no claims being another) to call the Fuel Assist guys and a bloke turned up within the hour in a spiffed out modern van with an array of hi-tech cleaning and draining tools.

In an hour, the bloke had drained the tank using the senders themselves, flushed it through thoroughly (including the lines, returns, fuel filter and part of the hi pressure fuel pump) with diesel and an (optional £20) additive that attacks the petrol and removes it from any seals and topped it up with £10 worth of D. Turned it over and in a few times and it started fine. Left it running for 5 mins. No issues.

Total price (inc VAT, fuel and additive): £214. Some £150 less than his excess and done in an hour.

Whilst waiting with a cuppa he dispelled some rumours and myths.

He does 6 of these a day. Modern through old and has done a bunch of 335 and 330D etc... They have a 99.5% success rate with no reported failures. The .5% are the people who drive on regardless of the mechanical catastrophe going on under the bonnet only for it to grind to a halt with damaged internals.

The small distance covered and the way this was turned off at the first sign meant that pump damage was unlikely. Can't rule this out totally though as tolerances are different and the D lubes the hi pressure pump. Petrol does not and prolonged running can damage the veins that can break up.

He's seen people drive 100 miles on a 50/50 mix with it as rough as a dogs arse only to get home and find the pump damaged and swarf in the engine. That's when the expense starts.

His gear was pretty high tech. Special pressure pumps and gizmos to ensure the tank, fuel lines and returns were flushed through without turning the engine over once. Can all be done form one of the BMW senders for us (these are easily accessible under the back seat on the 3 series). For which he has some special connectors. His kit and processes have been sanctioned and approved by the manufacturers, including BMW.

He mentioned that it is likely this garage would most likely have simply drained the fuel from direct pumping via the fuel filler. Possibly disconnecting the tank needing new seals etc... They'd have then refuelled the car with some petrol still in (BM senders are designed to pump out practically everything), turned over the car a few times to flush fuel through the Hi-pressure pump and reconnected it. This would had caused the pump to start to fail. Tolerance margins, how long they'd have needed to crank it over and a little less luck could mean damaging it.

He did say that warranties would (most likely) be void and that in BM's case they would most likely change the senders and two/three fuel pumps and lines. Depending on the time run with Petrol. Injectors too. This is when it gets to the £4k mark.

I must admit he did a fantastic job. All done on his drive, highly professional, quick and very cheap considering the alternatives. As he's taken the chance that the pump is OK, he'll have to drive for a few hundred miles hoping the pump doesn't fail (no doubt listening to very buzz and notices every engine rev). Then I suppose it's down to insurance and warranty.

As he did the right thing when he spotted it, he's possibly made the right decision. As verified by an independent specialist.

Rule of thumb:
1. Don't put petrol in your D (and vice versa).

2. If you do, don't start it. Call these boys out.
3. If you do drive off and it feels rough. or you realise, stop ASAP. Call these boys out.

I'll leave you with their website....

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice...el-assist.html

dxb335d · 06-08-2009, 04:19 PM

was it you really mate?

Joke

He was lucky.

alcook · 06-08-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxb335d

was it you really mate?

Joke

He was lucky.

He was......

Dr.Crap · 06-08-2009, 05:08 PM

A very useful post

I nearly did this when i sold my D, had the pump primed and ready whilst staring vacantly at the unleaded sign on the inside of the fuel cap

BigDman · 06-09-2009, 05:08 AM

Happened to a friend of mine because ASDA petrol station had unleaded with a black cap pump and diesel had green ?!

He filled up his range rover discovery diesel with petrol. He was very lucky the insurance covered it under accidental damage

He complained to Asda and they said there is no convention on the colour of caps on pumps

dxb335d · 06-09-2009, 10:29 AM

Fcukin asda knobs.

Carrera RSR · 06-09-2009, 12:05 PM

Excellent write up

Done this a few times.

Once in a Mondeo, nearly full will petrol topped up with diesel. Drove home from London but died in Bristol. Drained it with a mate, filled it up with diesel and continued with no problems to over 120k before handing it back to lease company.

A couple of years ago in a Volvo V50 (again a Ford engine) drove for 10 miles before dieing. Volvo charged £240 to drain fuel and replace filters. Wrote a letter of complaint to BP for having Unleaded, Diesel, Super Unleaded and Super Diesel all next to each other especially the Super fuels both having blue handles. BP paid up

V50 continued for 80k before being sold on.

Heard a lot of scare stories of BMW's needing new engines at £4-5k costs if its mis fuelled

doughboy · 06-10-2009, 06:04 AM

Good write up.

I recently brimmed a diesel corsa hire car with unleaded. Pushed the car away from the pump when I realised.

Phoned the AA, the fuel van was there is 45 minutes and done an hour later. Very professional and courteous.

Included in the £210 was £10 of clean diesel too.

IME Insurance does cover you if you wreck the engine with thr wrong fuel, as that's what insurance is for - accidents!

06-08-2009, 04:11 PM	#1
alcook Captain 27 Rep 639 Posts Drives: M4 CP Convertible Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Yorkshire, UK iTrader: (0)	Petrol In a Diesel (or vice versa)? AA's new 'Fuel Assisst' service... Witnessed the new(ish) AA service 'Fuel Assist' in action today. After loads of searching last night regarding misfueling, I found many horror stories and myths about this growing issue. Though I'd share a very recent experience here to help, especially as what I saw today and speaking to the guy, many of these myths were dispelled.... Mate put petrol in his D last night. German. 06. Nuff said. Story is: 30 miles left on the OBC (~1 gallon) filled up to the top with Shell Unleaded and drove off. Soon as the car started to run poorly, he realised what he'd done and knocked it into neutral, coasted to a stop and killed the ignition. Total distance 1/2 mile tops. Majorly pissed off for doing something stupid the AA recovered him to his home. Their Fuel assist service was unavailable after 7. It was an independent who turned up and they offered to take it away and 'clean it out'. Thankfully he refused. Got home and and read through many horror stories about fuel pumps disintegrating and swarfing the injectors, people paying out thousands etc etc. Seems this is supported by an experienced and recently ex BMW tech from the amount of dodgily drained cars he's had through his hands. The tow truck guy also told him: It wouldn't be covered by insurance as it was a user created mechanical fault Taking it to the steeler would invalidate the fuel mechanism warranty and possibly future engine issues (even minor related) Bills IRO £4k could be expected if the steeler replaced the various lines, pumps, senders and injectors. Other bills for £500 were a possibility for simply cleaning it out, as he'd driven it. Modern common rail diesels simply fail and are exceedingly hard and expensive to repair Feeling a little sick, he called the insurers. He was covered. £350 excess and the car off the road for a few days with a potential very large bill against his name if the steeler did the full monty. I suggest calling yours to check, as not all cover this. He decided against that option (loss of no claims being another) to call the Fuel Assist guys and a bloke turned up within the hour in a spiffed out modern van with an array of hi-tech cleaning and draining tools. In an hour, the bloke had drained the tank using the senders themselves, flushed it through thoroughly (including the lines, returns, fuel filter and part of the hi pressure fuel pump) with diesel and an (optional £20) additive that attacks the petrol and removes it from any seals and topped it up with £10 worth of D. Turned it over and in a few times and it started fine. Left it running for 5 mins. No issues. Total price (inc VAT, fuel and additive): £214. Some £150 less than his excess and done in an hour. Whilst waiting with a cuppa he dispelled some rumours and myths. He does 6 of these a day. Modern through old and has done a bunch of 335 and 330D etc... They have a 99.5% success rate with no reported failures. The .5% are the people who drive on regardless of the mechanical catastrophe going on under the bonnet only for it to grind to a halt with damaged internals. The small distance covered and the way this was turned off at the first sign meant that pump damage was unlikely. Can't rule this out totally though as tolerances are different and the D lubes the hi pressure pump. Petrol does not and prolonged running can damage the veins that can break up. He's seen people drive 100 miles on a 50/50 mix with it as rough as a dogs arse only to get home and find the pump damaged and swarf in the engine. That's when the expense starts. His gear was pretty high tech. Special pressure pumps and gizmos to ensure the tank, fuel lines and returns were flushed through without turning the engine over once. Can all be done form one of the BMW senders for us (these are easily accessible under the back seat on the 3 series). For which he has some special connectors. His kit and processes have been sanctioned and approved by the manufacturers, including BMW. He mentioned that it is likely this garage would most likely have simply drained the fuel from direct pumping via the fuel filler. Possibly disconnecting the tank needing new seals etc... They'd have then refuelled the car with some petrol still in (BM senders are designed to pump out practically everything), turned over the car a few times to flush fuel through the Hi-pressure pump and reconnected it. This would had caused the pump to start to fail. Tolerance margins, how long they'd have needed to crank it over and a little less luck could mean damaging it. He did say that warranties would (most likely) be void and that in BM's case they would most likely change the senders and two/three fuel pumps and lines. Depending on the time run with Petrol. Injectors too. This is when it gets to the £4k mark. I must admit he did a fantastic job. All done on his drive, highly professional, quick and very cheap considering the alternatives. As he's taken the chance that the pump is OK, he'll have to drive for a few hundred miles hoping the pump doesn't fail (no doubt listening to very buzz and notices every engine rev). Then I suppose it's down to insurance and warranty. As he did the right thing when he spotted it, he's possibly made the right decision. As verified by an independent specialist. Rule of thumb: 1. Don't put petrol in your D (and vice versa). 2. If you do, don't start it. Call these boys out. 3. If you do drive off and it feels rough. or you realise, stop ASAP. Call these boys out. I'll leave you with their website.... http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice...el-assist.html Last edited by alcook; 06-08-2009 at 04:30 PM..
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06-08-2009, 04:19 PM	#2
dxb335d The Tarmac Terrorist 1122 Rep 29,344 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: ''Fandango Towers'' iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 [9.50] 2003 BMW E46 M3 [6.00] 2007 BMW E92 335D [5.50]	was it you really mate? Joke He was lucky. __________________ 997.2 GT3
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06-08-2009, 05:08 PM	#4
Dr.Crap Second Lieutenant 62 Rep 297 Posts Drives: G80 M3 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Below Scotland iTrader: (0)	A very useful post I nearly did this when i sold my D, had the pump primed and ready whilst staring vacantly at the unleaded sign on the inside of the fuel cap
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06-09-2009, 05:08 AM	#5
BigDman Enlisted Member 0 Rep 34 Posts Drives: E90 320i M Sport Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London iTrader: (0)	Happened to a friend of mine because ASDA petrol station had unleaded with a black cap pump and diesel had green ?! He filled up his range rover discovery diesel with petrol. He was very lucky the insurance covered it under accidental damage He complained to Asda and they said there is no convention on the colour of caps on pumps
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06-09-2009, 10:29 AM	#6
dxb335d The Tarmac Terrorist 1122 Rep 29,344 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: ''Fandango Towers'' iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 [9.50] 2003 BMW E46 M3 [6.00] 2007 BMW E92 335D [5.50]	Fcukin asda knobs. __________________ 997.2 GT3
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06-09-2009, 12:05 PM	#7
Carrera RSR Colonel 77 Rep 2,937 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Location: Location: iTrader: (1)	Excellent write up Done this a few times. Once in a Mondeo, nearly full will petrol topped up with diesel. Drove home from London but died in Bristol. Drained it with a mate, filled it up with diesel and continued with no problems to over 120k before handing it back to lease company. A couple of years ago in a Volvo V50 (again a Ford engine) drove for 10 miles before dieing. Volvo charged £240 to drain fuel and replace filters. Wrote a letter of complaint to BP for having Unleaded, Diesel, Super Unleaded and Super Diesel all next to each other especially the Super fuels both having blue handles. BP paid up V50 continued for 80k before being sold on. Heard a lot of scare stories of BMW's needing new engines at £4-5k costs if its mis fuelled
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06-10-2009, 06:04 AM	#8
doughboy Major General 1602 Rep 8,972 Posts Drives: 2007 E85 Z4M Roadster Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (2)	Good write up. I recently brimmed a diesel corsa hire car with unleaded. Pushed the car away from the pump when I realised. Phoned the AA, the fuel van was there is 45 minutes and done an hour later. Very professional and courteous. Included in the £210 was £10 of clean diesel too. IME Insurance does cover you if you wreck the engine with thr wrong fuel, as that's what insurance is for - accidents!
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